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View Poll Results: Should this be the new version of Open or a separate rule?

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Thread: Potential Edit for Open rules

  1. #1

    The Wrath of Hoenn

    URPG StaffAdministrator Ash K.'s Avatar
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    Default Potential Edit for Open rules

    After much discussion in #general-chat just now and a few weeks ago, we think that this would be a beneficial new definition of Open:

    Trainers send their full stats or a subset (of any size) of their Pokémon to use to the ref (i.e. "all", "not Meowth", "Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, Pikachu"). The ref will then announce those selections and the trainers battle as if those were the Pokémon they own, choosing which of those Pokémon as they go and sending gender, item, and ability when the Pokémon is first sent out.

    I'm sure you've got questions, the first being "Why?" Well, it mostly comes down to Roar and similar moves, in a few ways. As you probably know, Roar in Open right now can bring out anything in your stats, whether it's Unown, Magikarp, or Arceus. While outright banning such moves (and Red Card) might seem like the obvious solution, they are actually very important for things like clearing stat ups and it would have pretty massive implications on other strategy if they were banned. I'm sure this isn't the first time someone has tried to solve this problem (though I sure hope it's the last). This allows you to easily remove things that you're not going to use (such as Magikarp or Unown in a Fire gym... Or literally anywhere except battles to evolve that Magikarp) but can punish you for being too greedy on removing things (such as Jumpluff, Talonflame, Ditto, or Murkrow in that Fire gym and not having an answer to their Speed Boost Blaziken) since you have made yourself completely unable to send them. This also allows "theme battles" such as mock gym battles or gen 1 only battles, etc. without risking Roar ruining the theme.

    tl;dr: Remove things so they can't get Roared, but at the cost of losing it as an option if you get greedy and remove more than your Magikarps and Unowns and whatnot, both to more balance Roar and to prevent it ruining themed battles.

    If you have any other questions or comments on this, please let me know here or on Discord! If at any point there's a few days without any current reasons not to do this, I will go ahead and make the change (because I know things can get lost and forgotten from lack of discussion otherwise).
    Ash K. on BMG/PXR/SPC, Alcadies on PE2K, MewAshMew on AIM.
    URPG: Champion, Moderator, Senior Referee, Head Judge, Johto LO, Legend Defender, Fortree City Gym Leader, Celestic Town Division Head, Kumquat Island Gym Leader
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    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey
    1896/1926/1966

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  3. #2
    juliorain's Avatar
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    Default

    I think there should be another rule for open battles.

    I lean towards the option suggestion
    Roar List FULL/Reduced

    something along those lines. That way gym leaders should have the ability to decide what they could want possibly rolled.




    Img Made by Morru/Mako

  4. #3

    The Wrath of Hoenn

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    Default

    After #trainers-court discussion, the plan is to implement this as its own rule which would make the relevant section of RefPedia look like this:

    This is how the relevant part of Refpedia would look under this proposed change (name pending)


    Full
    A complete team of Pokemon, with abilities and held items, is sent to the referee prior to the battle.
    Preview
    Similar to full, however the referee will reveal both teams before leads are selected.
    Open
    Pokemon are sent during the battle – teams are not predetermined.
    Box
    Trainers send their full stats or a subset (of any size) of their Pokémon to use to the ref (i.e. "all", "not Meowth", "Bulbasaur, Charmander, Squirtle, Pikachu"). The ref will then announce those selections and the trainers battle as if those were the Pokémon they own, choosing which of those Pokémon as they go and sending gender, item, and ability when the Pokémon is first sent out.
    Ash K. on BMG/PXR/SPC, Alcadies on PE2K, MewAshMew on AIM.
    URPG: Champion, Moderator, Senior Referee, Head Judge, Johto LO, Legend Defender, Fortree City Gym Leader, Celestic Town Division Head, Kumquat Island Gym Leader
    URPG Stats
    Feel free to ask me any questions you have about URPG.
    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey
    1896/1926/1966

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  6. #4

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    Default

    Public Preview/Full exists, I honestly don't understand the need for this to exist? If you want to have a battle that is remotely competitive enough that you care about not being roared into a basic, just run one of the current existing game-modes that allow you to do that. Arbritarily restricting your available pool in an "open" style just doesn't make sense? It would be used to just eliminate potential rolls that are bad for your matchup/favourite mons in general and restrict gameplay. Like Open is currently only used for Gyms to give themselves an advantage which this would just be used to restrict someone's whole lineup to "all of my mons good against this gym and not the bad ones" or like randoms? I have no sympathy for you rolling basics in randoms in any way.

    I'm sorry if I'm sounding blunt, don't mean to, I'm tired atm. We have a nice line between open and full/preview and i just don't understand why we need to have a new game mode that sits on the line as "open but you get to pick which pokemon you play opens from" which would exist to do... what, exactly?

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  8. #5
    URPG StaffAce Member ModeratorAdministrator Elrond's Avatar
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    Default

    Like Open is currently only used for Gyms to give themselves an advantage which this would just be used to restrict someone's whole lineup to "all of my mons good against this gym and not the bad ones" or like randoms?


    I haven't backread all of #TC on Discord yet, so apologies if this has already been discussed.

    I think to avoid this particular scenario, where a challenger puts all of their advantageous Pokemon in the Box against a gym and removes any others, the Box rule should have a specific limit every time. I believe Ash suggested a limit of fifteen at one point, which sounds about right to me. Hopefully that should be large enough that players have to dip into the pool of things that are okay, but not great, against a gym.
    Last edited by Elrond; 04-08-18 at 08:32 AM.

  9. #6

    The Wrath of Hoenn

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond View Post


    I haven't backread all of #TC on Discord yet, so apologies if this has already been discussed.

    I think to avoid this particular scenario, where a challenger puts all of their advantageous Pokemon in the Box against a gym and removes any others, the Box rule should have a specific limit every time. I believe Ash suggested a limit of fifteen at one point, which sounds about right to me. Hopefully that should be large enough that players have to dip into the pool of things that are okay, but not great, against a gym.
    I was never the one who suggested a limit, as that would also prevent other applications (such as a mock gym battle) and I honestly don't believe it is necessary. A few others did suggest a limit though.
    Ash K. on BMG/PXR/SPC, Alcadies on PE2K, MewAshMew on AIM.
    URPG: Champion, Moderator, Senior Referee, Head Judge, Johto LO, Legend Defender, Fortree City Gym Leader, Celestic Town Division Head, Kumquat Island Gym Leader
    URPG Stats
    Feel free to ask me any questions you have about URPG.
    "When you can have anything you want by uttering a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it." -Rhunön the Elf (Eldest: Inheritance Book 2)
    "You might think it’s to help you be a better battler. Really it’s just to make your battles less painful for the poor referee that has to face-palm every turn." - Monbrey
    1896/1926/1966

  10. #7
    URPG Demoderator Monbrey's Avatar
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    Default

    The more I think about this, the more I lean towards somewhat agreeing with Fabled here.

    I have always thought that the Roar mechanic was broken in URPG Open formats, and I've said so many times over the years. This is the first time people seem willing to actually do something to balance it, so that's nice.

    It was designed in-game for the Full/Preview style which contained a roster of six. Those six would be the six best-suited Pokemon to the competitive scenario. In URPG with collectors like Bumblebee and Morru, the mechanic was hella broken.

    I like the proposal to have a "Battling" lineup that you take into an Open battle, to maintain the on-the-fly selection freedom without being seriously handicapped just because you collect bad Pokemon/basics. Having said that, I also partly agree with Fabled that Full/Preview already achieves this - but it doesn't fix the issue as long as the current style of Open is an available selection for gym battles. If gyms are what we are looking at as being competitive enough to require this Roar mechanic patch, they need to be forced to Full/Preview and also allow "Box", or Open needs to be modified to accomodate "Box"

    tl;dr I think if this was to be a separate rule to Open, then Open should no longer be gym eligible. Or we can modify Open and that also patches the mechanic either way.

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