User Tag List

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: URPG: Moving Forward!

  1. #11
    URPG Demoderator Monbrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    260
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    1,399 (0 Banked)

    Default

    As this continues I'm really losing the sympathy I had for a lot of people involved. Here's some transparency for you all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    Choosing to hold back and instead act on hidden thoughts puts us back where we started.
    Alright then. No holding back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    We've festered a community that doesn't trust anyone
    I'll give you credit for acknowledging that you've been guilty of it too - I can definitely respect that. So have I. The reason we've festered a community that doesn't trust anyone is not because of some kind of paranoia. Paranoia implies that it's unreasonable and baseless, when the truth of the matter is that this is a very untrustworthy community in the terms you describe it. We do all talk shit about other people. Maybe I'm being too harsh because really, the whole world does this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    In my experience, reasonable people respond well to being treated like adults.
    Really wish we had a few more reasonable adults around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    The thought that one person did something egregious, and that somebody else can be rightfully angry about it, is beyond our imagination.

    The members of Staff are given a lot of shit, and can't really put out all of the fires because of this atmosphere that exists where you're overly compelled to listen to both sides -- even the guilty party. That's a pretty shitty version of justice. Manners and tone (diplomacy) matter for too much instead of actually being right about something and acting on it.
    I have no idea how you expect me to address this. Are you implying that everything is one sided and that only one person is 100% guilty and one 100% innocent? That we should take the side of the first person to report an issue? How much public backlash do you think we'd get for acting like that? Of the two options, I stand by the fact that considering both sides is the better option. How else can we "actually be right" when we act on it?

    I think a lot of people forget how many different conversations they show me in an attempt to get me on their side, or they think I won't read through it from an impartial mindset. I generally do get a pretty good idea of the big picture and the guilt is rarely one-sided. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been conversations suggesting that Elysia should have been punished too, had she not left.

    "The thought that one person did something egregious, and that somebody else can be rightfully angry about it, is beyond our imagination."

    You realise that this is exactly why Weir did what he did, right? No, what seems to beyond everyone else's imagination is that EVERYONE is doing egregious shit and EVERYONE gets angry about it.

    HERE COMES THAT TRANSPARENCY.

    The introduction of Onmyo to URPG was a fucking shitshow. Another thing I can respect you for acknowledging.

    I saw the original group chat where the idea was formulated together with the Park staff, knowingly and intentionally excluding Winter from the project who was still the Head at that time.
    I saw discussions around having Ely be the one present it to Staff so Winter wouldn't be offended that the Park Seniors had worked on it without her.
    I saw the presentation to Staff, where it was all represented as being mostly Ely's work. Partly because you all planned it that way, partly because there was a second part which actually WAS all Nitro and Ely's work.
    I saw that second part finally be presented back to the Park staff. Not to re-involve the Park Staff. Not to discuss the merits of the idea. Not to discuss IF it would be a good Park revamp. No, the very first pitch back was "we're unsure who should lead it", and the attitude that either it would replace Park, or it would compete with Park. No fucking wonder it created some hostility.

    But at it's core, it WAS good work and so I did my best to find a way that the work put it in would be acknowledged and URPG could benefit from it. To support the new intellectual property and it's creators while also supporting K'sariya and Felly as the now-appointed Park leaders to work in the way they saw fit.

    And now, Elysia and Nitro, you've both abandoned Onmyo on Liam, who has to lead the section AND deal with the hostile environment you both created. So almost all of the sympathies I had for the both of you now lie with him.

    I'm honestly not sure where Weir came into all this. From what I can tell, because I tried to consider both sides, there was a lot of harboured resentment both ways since the issue with his finances. I know not everyone on Staff trusted that it was a mistake, Weir likely felt the impact of this. I don't know if it was or wasn't and I don't claim to know - we gave the benefit of the doubt and I will stand by that. I assume the final straw was related to Onmyo, in support of K'sariya/because of how he felt she had been treated.

    I'm not defending his actions. I stand by our decision. I won't stand by while anyone suggests that we should treat these things as one-sided

    ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    For a long time (perhaps since URPG has existed), but at the very least the last 7 years I have been here, there has always been this really weird dynamic between members of the community and the staff. Maybe it is because I haven't been as active within the community for the last while, but I actually thought that things hadn't been so bad before all of this blew up.
    I had thought so too. I touched on exactly this in my other post. When you and I first joined Staff was in a very different place to where it is now. We really have done a lot of try to change that dynamic and bridge that gap. I think there's been a lot of positives, and some negatives which I already mentioned.

    But you're right, this keeps on happening. More change is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    -If someone is working on a new project, they should make sure everyone in staff is aware and has the opportunity to get involved.

    -If someone asks a member of staff on the progress of a certain project or issue, that issue should be addressed at the next staff meeting and an appropriate update from staff on the current status should be released after the meeting.

    -If people get banned, there should be a formal announcement. This is a big deal and a statement should be issued [read: this is a great example of what not to do]. The example here is vague, speaks almost entirely in superlatives and idealisations, without actually saying what has even happened. This just makes things even more confusing and causes fear-mongering and rumours spreading.
    I agree with all of these.

    One thing I'm not sure on is how we address Staff leaving. I know you all want official statements and I don't blame you for that, but if a Staff member posts their emotions and reasons only to Staff, I don't feel like I have the right to relay what they said and felt to anybody else. We can try to approach it in a more generic sense, but that has it's own challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthesis View Post
    -No discounting members. Something that used to be a big issue, maybe not so much now, but it does happen to some extent: someone does something inappropriate, or they are annoying, or misbehave once, and then they find themselves with a big red mark against their name. I really didn't want to give examples of this but I think it has to be addressed with one. Mlouden was annoying, and he cheated, and he was made restart. This was all fair, but he was also really picked on. I can't even tell you the amount of times after he was made restart that members of staff and others would insult him behind his back and automatically assume the worst whenever he did anything, driving him to leave. Even with his flaws, he was always respectful and passionate about the game, devoting a lot of his time and energy towards it. This is one extreme example, but this sort of dismissal of people has happened a LOT over the years, and it's very unfair.
    This is something I was very guilty of. I'd push back on the opinions of people I didn't like instead of objectively looking at merit. I like to think I've come a long way in changing that about myself because I felt it was one of my biggest flaws. I probably still hold biases, but I think I've gotten pretty good at looking for what's best for URPG first.

    Because:

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond View Post
    The priority, though, in my opinion, has to be the health of URPG as a whole.
    This is one thing I hope absolutely everybody can agree on.

    I'd like to thank everybody who has had a kind word to say towards the effort Harry and I make. I'm really just an ordinary bloke who ended up in this leadership role. I'll keep doing my best, flaws and all.
    Last edited by Monbrey; 12-17-17 at 04:46 PM.

  2. #12
    Sleepyhead URPG Staff Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    663
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    6,070 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Apologies if anyone opens this forum expecting me to add more. I think I've said my part.

    What I do want to do though, is thank everyone. All of this negativity is just splayed out everywhere right now. I hope that this post helps condense that into one place. Not just in one place, but converting this negativity into a positive outlet: improving a game we love.

    I don't think it's worth it for me to go post by post and point out flaws or other questions. I think me doing a kick off was all that was needed.

    I have nothing else to add.

    Otherwise... I want to sincerely thank everyone for discussing this the way they are at the moment. It warms my heart to see everyone come here and just post and let out their frustrations (fair or not,) to Players and Staff alike and trying to express they are hunting for a solution. More than anything, we need to look into working together and I feel as if this is a huge stride in that direction.

    Thank you all so much for taking time to participate in this discussion.

    -

    Now if more has to be said, say it, but I feel after three days and so much discussion, I wanted to openly thank all of you for discussing these issues.
    "Take Care of Yourself"



  3. #13
    Steel Soul Design TeamURPG Staff K'sariya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    5,097 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey View Post
    HERE COMES THAT TRANSPARENCY.

    The introduction of Onmyo to URPG was a fucking shitshow. Another thing I can respect you for acknowledging.

    I saw the original group chat where the idea was formulated together with the Park staff, knowingly and intentionally excluding Winter from the project who was still the Head at that time.
    I saw discussions around having Ely be the one present it to Staff so Winter wouldn't be offended that the Park Seniors had worked on it without her.
    I saw the presentation to Staff, where it was all represented as being mostly Ely's work. Partly because you all planned it that way, partly because there was a second part which actually WAS all Nitro and Ely's work.
    I saw that second part finally be presented back to the Park staff. Not to re-involve the Park Staff. Not to discuss the merits of the idea. Not to discuss IF it would be a good Park revamp. No, the very first pitch back was "we're unsure who should lead it", and the attitude that either it would replace Park, or it would compete with Park. No fucking wonder it created some hostility.

    But at it's core, it WAS good work and so I did my best to find a way that the work put it in would be acknowledged and URPG could benefit from it. To support the new intellectual property and it's creators while also supporting K'sariya and Felly as the now-appointed Park leaders to work in the way they saw fit.

    ...

    I'm honestly not sure where Weir came into all this. From what I can tell, because I tried to consider both sides, there was a lot of harboured resentment both ways since the issue with his finances. I know not everyone on Staff trusted that it was a mistake, Weir likely felt the impact of this. I don't know if it was or wasn't and I don't claim to know - we gave the benefit of the doubt and I will stand by that. I assume the final straw was related to Onmyo, in support of K'sariya/because of how he felt she had been treated.
    I feel like Monbrey has succinctly expressed how I feel about most of the rest of Nitro's post. But I just wanted to address this. Monbrey, I cannot express how cathartic it is to see someone say this. To see someone acknowledge this. To feel like for what might be one of the first times that Felly and I's feelings were not just us being oversensitive, or crazy, or paranoid. What you've said is technically so, so, small but for me but it is so healing. And since we're being open about things, this situation with SB is something I wanted to be open about too. I want to try to make my perspective clear and my feelings about all of this more clear.

    Note that since my mindset is framed by when the idea was introduced as SB, I often use the two interchangeably.

    I will say that I believe Weir did come into the Onymo situation because of how Felly and I were treated. Monbrey is not wrong on how the SB idea was presented. When I was added to that chat, it began with:
    Code:
    Elysia added Nitro to the group.11/05/2017Elysia added Smiles to the group.11/05/2017
    Elysia added K'sariya to the group.11/05/2017
    Nitro - 11/05/2017
    my sons
    Elysia - 11/05/2017
    so there's not exactly an easy way to approach this
    nitro and I got sleep-deprived last tuesday and somehow started a spinoff of the park that, in hindsight, might just be better as a replacement for the park
    [google docs link here]
    there's a handbook here
    and for the past few days no one is sure who will implement it or how to approach leadership
    At the time this happened, Weir was in town for the weekend. I was finishing up something on my computer and thought that whatever chat I was being invited to would be a small, quick ordeal. Weir was lying in bed a bit behind me, doing his own thing on his phone. I saw this message, in my panic said to the chat that I didn't have time/the emotional space to read it at the moment, closed Discord, and began to cry. Naturally, when he immediately came over to ask what was wrong, I told him. Weir has known about how this all went down from the beginning because of that circumstance. And without him asking me the questions that I needed to hear and consider that night, I would have probably lied down, rolled over, and given up Park to allow it to become SB, because I didn't think that I would be offered the power to say "no." So unfortunately, with the circumstances, there wasn't a way that I could have dis-involved Weir, which in some regards might be regrettable, but in others, I think it was far from it.

    I realize that the precedent that was set by us discussing a potential Park rework without Winter was a terrible one. It's something that we felt was justified at the time based on a feeling of helplessness I'd developed over a couple of months (and perhaps longer for Felly), but I do know that I (and everyone else in that chat) bear culpability for participating with that poor excuse, and perhaps SB was some sort of penance for that.

    Either way, returning to trying to explain my perspective and why I feel things ended up being worse than anyone ever intended it to be. Felly and I only ever received one direct apology for it all. Perhaps this was a symptom of what Nitro said, about people avoiding difficult conversations. I tried not to. My attempt to have one of these difficult conversations is what led to the one apology we received. But that one apology was also accompanied with the implied accusation that Felly and I's initial Park changes were taken from SB. And that same accusation was accompanied by a joke made by Felly in URPG chat being used as ammunition against her to further imply that the ideas were taken from SB.

    Felly and I spent so much time trying to talk about it, trying to move past the hostility it all created, and trying to get to a place where we enjoyed URPG again. We tried to look at it all from the perspective we'd been told, that us being intentionally left out was just our perception influenced by our emotions rather than a reality of what happened. We tried to give the benefit of the doubt on the intentions of the creation of SB. But the atmosphere and attitudes since then made it difficult to do so, especially once I was able to see how the original Onymo pitch to staff (done still without our knowledge, a week before it was even presented or made known to Felly and I) actually went down, vs. what we'd been told happened. We felt increasingly hopeless because of that, and also because of the messages that continued to be implied afterwards.

    The first implied message was that Felly and I rejected SB not because we had some valid reason to, but because of who was leading it. This is something that has been implied by some in comments as simple as the whole ordeal being about "pride," implying that we rejected it on some basis of ego, to Nitro's HKim pastebin (relinked for convenience), where it's implied that the whole issue was more about hurt feelings more than anything else, and that if we repaired those hurt feelings then everything would be okay. While, yes, the "hurt feelings" definitely contributed to the situation being poor, to assume that it was the only reason why we wanted to have a chance at fixing the section before killing its current form paints a petty and shallow picture that simply wasn't tture.

    The second implied message is that SB replacing Park has always been the only "best choice" or "best thing" for URPG, also exemplified by Nitro's messages in the pastebin. While I can see how this might have been well-intentioned by the people who said it, it did nothing but reinforce the stinging implication of the first message, about it just being a matter of ego or selfishness, like us trying to give Park on its own another chance was us hurting URPG for our own egos, and that there was no other alternative. As if there was no confidence in Felly and I (or even in the SB team) to find a way to make both sections work independently. And to be frank, it also felt completely disingenuous.

    The part of this that made the "best choice for URPG" sentiment feel disingenuous was the other part of this, which was the fact that the SB team seemed dead-set on pushing the development of the entirety of SB so that it would be released by Invitational. I don't mean this phrasing in an accusatory way, so I apologize if that's the way it sounds. But this determination was iterated from the very start, and then also later in an instance I'll mention soon. Combined with everything else, especially in the next log I have, made it seem like there was a message being sent that SB replacing Park was only good for URPG if it was done before Invitational. It couldn't wait to let Felly and I have a chance at saving Park before replacing it. It was only good if it was done before.

    Two weeks before Invitational, I was approched by Elysia about changing the leadership of Onymo to make the merge possible (which again was another example of message #1). In the first few messages, I misread/misunderstood the intent as a proposition for a potential Park rework at our own pace, which felt like a great gesture, but by the end realized what was actually being said. While I can understand the sentiment of wanting to catch an expected influx of members during Invitational, the implication of all of this felt especially stinging. Somehow, without any play-testing or experimentation or even a fully developed system, the conclusion had been reached that rushing to try to completely replace the Park with SB in a timeline of two weeks or less was obviously the best course of action for URPG. That was what was best for URPG, not trying to see if we could save the section now that we had the power to, and waiting to see if it could be done before we decided to replace it. Two weeks is not enough time to make all of the changes that need to be made to Park, let alone to make those changes and also see their results.

    And like I said before; I don't mean for this to be accusatory, and I'm not trying to place this on any one person. There were a lot of mistakes made. I'm just talking about how all of this ended up coming across to me, and why this was something that ended up being so much more damaging than I think anyone originally anticipated, and how it re-shaped URPG for me in a way that I'm trying to make reversible. In a way, it also explains why Weir likely felt so strongly about the parties involved. While it doesn't excuse the offense he was banned for, hopefully it does help inform why he had a focus on Onmyo, and why the situation exacerbated existing feelings toward certain people or created new ones. To be clear, my sentiments about this in hindsight are a lot less strong, now. I've come to terms with what happened and how it happened, for the most part because I want both sections to be able to move on and succeed on their own terms. I just wanted to explain how I perceived things, and hopefully help give some insight to everyone on why things became so strong around it.

    I know that's a lot to read and a lot to take in. Apologies in that regard.

    Note also that I think Onymo releasing as its own section ended up being the best option, and will still continue to be. I don't hold any animosity for Onymo as a section, and definitely not toward Liam, who I think that will do a great job with it (despite the unfortunate circumstances). I plan on participating once I manage to get Park and Art a bit more caught up. I love seeing the discussions about it and try to chip in to answer peoples' questions on Discord when I see them. I've been trying to decide what to start with, and what Kua bonuses I'd enjoy RPing the most. I really think we can make this work, and that it'll be awesome.

  4. #14
    the vibration pokemon Nitro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    366
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    2,492 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Really quick post. Tried to side-step the more serious issues because, uh, they've clearly already detonated, so there's no point to give you more grief over it now. But I can't fully disengage.

    • Thanks for being direct, Monbrey. I don't really mind that you sent shots my way, I think that if we were in a better place, we could've talked those out like the regular degular issues that they were. I feel like the fact that we actually are talking about them here is getting us somewhere -- a place of mutual understanding, even if a place of agreement is probably long lost to us.
    • I fucked over Liam, completely. I've told him as much and I have no real disagreements with the thought.
    • I did think that the issue was about hurt feelings more than Park/SB, but I think I did at some point communicate to Ely or HKim that I held out hope that new Park leadership could innovate and erase any overlap. That's an uphill battle, in my mind, but there was a bit of benefit of the doubt there. It was difficult to be sure of anything; I just wish the feelings, whether they were the issue or not, were something we could've talked about. It becomes impossible to own our biases if we're unable to talk about them. In general, things would not have boiled over in this way if we could trust each other to say what we really think and have a real conversation about that. We always felt a degree removed from talking about things in their realest terms.
    • This is the one thing that I can't drop, and I'm sure Monbrey doesn't necessarily need any more trouble at the moment, but the problem was never that we didn't consider both sides. You know me; I don't think I've often been accused of not listening to people. But to listen to both sides shouldn't mean to listen to both sides equally, and when you go in with a focus on being impartial, it is incredibly easy to lose sight of the victim being, you know, the victim.

      I've said a bunch: Ely and I did a bad against K'sa in Onmyo dev, we ate shit and didn't try to avoid eating shit, but that bad does not equate at all to Weir's method of handling the issue -- even if it can be, in that one way, understood a bit. Unfortunately, in the way this all was handled, it did feel like victims on both sides (Ely, K'sa) weren't getting the resolution that they deserved or felt necessary, and I think this comes down to the starting point of a soft stance. There was a conflict between two other members this year that was poorly handed for this reason, IMO. Our guardians can’t be our guardians if they’re trying to be everyone’s (or no one's) guardians at once.


    I'm not certain that this actually adds much to this conversation, so, sorry for extra wordage if that's what it is. I need to communicate how much I believe in this, but I dialed the tone back because nobody needs that extra stress now.
    Last edited by Nitro; 12-18-17 at 03:08 AM.
    urpg

    [18:11] [Ranger Alliance]: (webdragoon1337) nitro, you in here?
    [18:11] Nitro: hello
    [18:12] [Ranger Alliance]: (webdragoon1337) knew there was another cool guy in here

  5. Likes +swiftgallade46, Surfer Liam, ~Jack liked this post
  6. #15
    Steel Soul Design TeamURPG Staff K'sariya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    356
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    5,097 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    Really quick post. Tried to side-step the more serious issues because, uh, they've clearly already detonated, so there's no point to give you more grief over it now. But I can't fully disengage.

    • I did think that the issue was about hurt feelings more than Park/SB, but I think I did at some point communicate to Ely or HKim that I held out hope that new Park leadership could innovate and erase any overlap. That's an uphill battle, in my mind, but there was a bit of benefit of the doubt there. It was difficult to be sure of anything; I just wish the feelings, whether they were the issue or not, were something we could've talked about. It becomes impossible to own our biases if we're unable to talk about them. In general, things would not have boiled over in this way if we could trust each other to say what we really think and have a real conversation about that. We always felt a degree removed from talking about things in their realest terms.
    • This is the one thing that I can't drop, and I'm sure Monbrey doesn't necessarily need any more trouble at the moment, but the problem was never that we didn't consider both sides. You know me; I don't think I've often been accused of not listening to people. But to listen to both sides shouldn't mean to listen to both sides equally, and when you go in with a focus on being impartial, it is incredibly easy to lose sight of the victim being, you know, the victim.

      I've said a bunch: Ely and I did a bad against K'sa in Onmyo dev, we ate shit and didn't try to avoid eating shit, but that bad does not equate at all to Weir's method of handling the issue -- even if it can be, in that one way, understood a bit. Unfortunately, in the way this all was handled, it did feel like victims on both sides (Ely, K'sa) weren't getting the resolution that they deserved or felt necessary, and I think this comes down to the starting point of a soft stance. There was a conflict between two other members this year that was poorly handed for this reason, IMO. Our guardians can’t be our guardians if they’re trying to be everyone’s (or no one's) guardians at once.
    As I mentioned in my post, I did try to talk about these feelings with one of the individuals involved (the only one that I had once felt close enough to and comfortable enough with to do so), and like I said, despite me laying out completely what I thought and felt "in their realest terms," the conversation still ended poorly, as aforementioned. That, and when I received staff access to see everything, were the moments that made the lost of trust I'd experienced feel irreversible.

    I don't think anyone has said it doesn't equate at all to Weir's method of handling the issue--both Monbrey and I said it doesn't excuse it. Additionally, the biggest point of contention in this entire staff disagreement seems to be the matter of Weir's intentions, so in the scheme of things, I believe it does matter. But just as perhaps it doesn't excuse Weir, it also doesn't excuse how Elysia handled the issue with Weir (or even other members) for months, either. Weir wasn't the one who tried to avoid difficult conversations. In fact, after the vicious comment said in T-C about Weir's post on wages, he attempted to try to get to the root of whatever issue Elysia had with him in PMs. He wanted to work out whatever underlying issue kept spurring her to continuously make aggressive and snide remarks toward him. But he was told that things were fine. By both you and Elysia. And of course, he didn't believe it, because obviously things weren't, and it's even more obvious now that they were very much not fine. And you, Nitro, recently have personally said that it was a poor mark on his character that he didn't believe you when you said that things were fine. So I'm getting some mixed messages. Are we supposed to have difficult conversations or are we not? Who else didn't get the resolution they deserved? It was more than just Elysia, Felly, and I--that much I know.

    You talk about the fact that "listen to both sides" shouldn't be "listen to both sides equally." But how do you even know which side to listen to equally before you've even heard them? All of the information we receive in every day life is framed by something--an institution of power; an agenda; a subliminal message; a context; everything--that changes how we perceive every little bit of information we receive. Right or wrong isn't black or white; it comes in shades of gray. In theory, it's nice to have unequal listening of sides, because that suggests that it's easy to tell right away who is most likely to be in the right and who is most likely to be in the wrong--until you're on the side that is chosen to be the one that is listened to less.

    That's the thing about equality vs equity; in a perfect world, we would all know instantly how to get everyone to the same view like in the graphic you showed. But in the stage of URPG, staff is the one who ultimately decides how to get everyone there--and we are not infallible. We can do our best, but that's it. Do you think that staff deciding who to listen to less in a dispute is really the thing that would solve URPG's problems? I feel like the progress staff did make before all of this came from listening to everyone equally. As BMG's announcement said, "favoritism" is a supposed problem in URPG's staff--would making what members would perceive as favoritism an official staff policy really help?

    The equality vs equity image is a common one that I've seen for years. I think it applies in some places, but not in others. While it's a sentiment that staff can keep in mind, it's not one that I think can be done by choosing which side to treat or listen to differently. If anything, I think that method would further the divide. I understand the concern that a victim of a situation not being treated like a victim is something that we don't need to lose sight of, but like I said--the best way that staff has to decide which side really is the victim is to, at least at first, listen to both sides equally. Otherwise, you further the divide between community and staff.

    Also tried to make this quick, so sorry if I might have not addressed a piece or two.

  7. Likes Mako, ~Jack liked this post
  8. #16
    URPG Demoderator Monbrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    260
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    1,399 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro View Post
    Unfortunately, in the way this all was handled, it did feel like victims on both sides (Ely, K'sa) weren't getting the resolution that they deserved or felt necessary
    I'm pretty sick of hearing the word victim. Unless of course you'd like to use it to refer to all of our now homeless members.

    How do I deal with this situation when one victim (Elysia) is the aggressor to the other victim (K'sariya) when both were complicit behind Winter in the first place?

    Seriously. I am not being hypothetical. I am not trying to call them both out or cause a bigger issue. I really have no idea how to correctly handle that situation. I tried my best.

  9. Likes ~K'sariya, Mako, Surfer Liam liked this post
  10. #17
    Loyal Arcanine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Abandoned Mansion, Cinnabar Island
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    93 (0 Banked)

    Default

    Wow, I was just looking for Husnain's memorial post on BMG and couldn't find it, and started googling the URPG.

    One can always count on URPG to provide some political drama.

  11. #18
    pink ball Mistral's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    In the cardboard box in front of your house.
    Posts
    7,745
    Post Thanks / Like
    PokeBucks
    22,451 (0 Banked)
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    I’ve debated replying to this thread for some time now, since I first saw it mentioned in URPG. Since I’ve seen this thread, I’ve gone from extreme frustration and wanting to call people out to just being incredibly tired of this whole situation. It doesn’t help that I’ve also been dealing with some shit in my personal life, within my family, as well that I’m not going to get into detail about here, but let’s just say it’s fucked me up really hard emotionally (and I’m still trying to come to terms with it in a way). Between what’s happening in my family and this, I haven’t felt like I’ve been emotionally okay enough to deal with this, so I abstained from the conversation and just shared my thoughts with those close to me in private because I recognized that I wasn’t okay enough emotionally to be public about this.

    Now I feel emotionally okay enough (at least as okay as I can be given my circumstances irl) to deal with this, so I’m going to.

    I think Monbrey and K’sariya have addressed a lot of it at this point, to be honest, but there’s just some things I want to address myself because I too was part of all of this. I'm not here to attack anyone, I'm just here to share my thoughts and show that while I've been quiet and behind the scenes for a lot of this, it's affected me too.

    I’m going to address Ralin’s questions first because I feel like it’s easier if I just go straight down the thread and address things.

    Public announcement of bans and explanations as to why. (discussed in discord.)
    I’m going to be 100% honest with this. I’m on the fence on making bans public with explanations. On one hand, it shows the members that staff does indeed punish those shown to have broken the rules and serves as a reminder of whatever rules were broken. On the other hand, if it’s a temporary ban, I feel like it shouldn’t be made public lest it alter people’s perceptions of them in the time that they’re banned. I think it’s something that has to be dealt with on a case by case basis. We don’t want to ostracize those who are able to return at the end of their ban period, but at the same time, there needs to be transparency in some way to keep rumors and speculation from happening.

    What can we do to lighten up and make the community more positive?
    When I first joined URPG, I felt like it was a welcoming place. People pushed me to take a Dojo in the Dojo League that was around at the time because they noticed I had a lot of Psychic types, so I took the Psychic Dojo. I was then nudged in the direction of the open Saffron Gym, and I took that too and led that until I switched to Geosenge (which I also later dropped). URPG had its problems, I was in “salt chats,” as I’ll refer to them, throughout my time in URPG, and while they were chats where we could vent about the problems of URPG and/or its members, it never blew too out of proportion like this has. Bear in mind that I am not against salt chats. I feel like it’s better to let your feelings out rather than holding them in, and I feel like salt chats allow you to vent your frustrations about a person or aspect of URPG without repercussions so that you can deal with the situation more appropriately. It is difficult to talk to someone or deal with an issue when you’re feeling frustrated or upset about it in the first place, and dealing with it while you are frustrated or upset can just make it worse instead of better.

    At the same time, I think we also need to regulate ourselves within these salt chats. It’s one thing to vent your frustrations about a user and another to actually attack them behind their back (or their face). Let your frustration out without being toxic, gather your thoughts, and approach the person when you’re calm enough to do so. Try to resolve conflicts yourself before you involve staff. We’re all adults here, for the most part, so I think we’re all capable of trying to resolve conflicts ourselves.

    As an aside, I don’t feel like these salt chats should be dubbed salt chats in the first place (even though that’s what I’ve been calling them). They should be places where you can chat with your URPG friends outside of the game about topics outside of URPG and strengthen your friendships. It’s up to the individual users, however, if they’re coming off as too toxic for anyone and up to them to leave if they are.

    I think we need to be more encouraging, not just to new members but to each other. Give those who are hesitant to try a section a nudge to trying it, see what’s keeping them from doing it and help them if you can, and if you can’t help them, refer them to someone who could help and tell that person who could help too. Foster a community of helping others improve.

    I think we need to listen to each other. Instead of dismissing ideas presented in Trainer’s Court, consider them. It can be frustrating to have your ideas dismissed and it makes you feel like no one cares about your ideas. There are no bad ideas, only ideas that can be improved upon. And sometimes it takes some thought to reach a point where we can improve upon those ideas, it’s not something that may happen in the course of a single conversation. It may take several conversations, and that’s okay. I’m not saying every idea has to be implemented into URPG, but it’s better to consider them and try to make this game better than to ignore and dismiss ideas. In that same vein, be able to respect each other and each other’s ideas.

    Finally, I think we need to hold ourselves accountable for our own actions and also hold others accountable for the actions they take; I think we need to be more proactive in our positions in the game. I sit and wonder if I could have prevented all of this drama from happening in the first place. If I had done more when I was an Elite Ranger, if I had worked harder as an Elite Ranger to bring change to the Park instead of letting it sit and continue to die and let others do the work while I sat back and did nothing, but I didn’t. I didn’t do more. I didn’t work harder to bring change to the Park. I let it sit and continue to die while others did the work and I sat back and did nothing. I realize now that maybe I could have prevented this, or maybe it still would have happened, I don’t know. What I do know is that I’m holding myself accountable now for my poor actions of the past, and I’m learning now that I need to be more proactive in my position in the game. I can’t sit back and let others do all of the work; I have to do something myself too or otherwise things will continue being the same. I’m realizing that now more than ever. I see that I made a mistake, and now I’ve learned from it and want to continue to make this game better.

    We can’t keep dwelling on the things that bother us. We have to learn from them and move on and become stronger people.

    be more welcoming. How?
    I think I pretty much answered this above, to be honest. I won’t repeat it for the sake of not wanting to make this post unnecessarily long, but tl;dr, just be encouraging and proactive, especially in the lives of new members, even if they can be annoying. If we want them to stay, we have to make them feel welcome, no matter how annoying they may be.

    Once we can, and if we can. How can we get new members? And what can we do to make them stay?
    The other day, I looked at the Invitational server. I just glanced at it, seeing it there in my list of servers on Discord. It was quiet, and understandably so. Invitational was over and the people we got from it moved to the main URPG server. I had a thought and I shared it with Mikey, which I’ll just c/p here.

    Mistral-Last Wednesday at 9:51 PM
    but uh
    i was just thinking
    Mistral-Last Wednesday at 9:52 PM
    if maybe we used the invitational server more
    Mistral-Last Wednesday at 9:52 PM
    instead of like one big event every year with the launch of new games, do several smaller events
    and then bigger events with new games
    idk

    There’s some responses from Mikey in there, but I removed them. He basically told me it was a good idea, just underdeveloped, which I understood because at the time, it was basically just a thought I had while glancing at the Invitational server. It still is just a thought that I haven’t developed. I’m sharing it here because I feel like by using the Invitational server more, it could help us gain new members because they’ll be able to see what URPG is like without fully committing to the game, and if at the end of it, they want to really join up and really continue participating in the game, they can in our main server. I love the idea of invitational and I want to do more with it. By doing more outreach stuff, it could help us get our name out there. Word of mouth helps growth; look at Facebook, it grew because of word of mouth for years. It’s an idea that maybe could be developed, but I think that’s a discussion for another time. I’ve had some nerves about sharing the idea with the public, but I think now’s a time to get past my fears and stop dwelling on the past and move forward, for my sake, and for the sake of my friends within this game.

    It also may be worth working more to close the gap between older, more experienced, more established members and those who are new to the game. I don’t really know how to do this, but food for thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey
    One thing I'm not sure on is how we address Staff leaving. I know you all want official statements and I don't blame you for that, but if a Staff member posts their emotions and reasons only to Staff, I don't feel like I have the right to relay what they said and felt to anybody else. We can try to approach it in a more generic sense, but that has it's own challenges.
    Now probably isn’t the best time to say this, but since we’re being transparent, I’ll come out too. I never even really shared my feelings with URPG staff to begin with, so I guess in terms of “good times to talk about this,” it’s now or never.

    I felt a frustration with URPG staff, to be completely honest. I didn’t feel like things were changing in the game, and I felt like when I wanted to address things, it wasn’t happening. It was a mutual frustration I felt with PWN and with URPG. Perhaps the two conflicted. In a way, it was likely my fault with my lengthy posts and not taking initiative and working on ideas more myself. I dunno, I just felt like I wasn’t supported that much in staff, and that honestly frustrated me a lot coupled with having to tell people “we’re working on it” and then nothing really changing or changes taking weeks or months to get done. While I get change takes time, it just felt like the process took a lot longer than it really needed to sometimes. For what it’s worth, I still do respect staff and the work y’all do and hold no resentment about what happened that led me to quitting staff. I believe change can happen in this game, and I believe that staff will make the right decisions for the improvement of this game, even if myself or anyone else doesn’t always agree with them. And hey, maybe I’ll come back to staff one day! (One day.)

    In general though, I looked through my logs with Harry, and I never really got the chance to really say why I left publicly or privately to staff. In hindsight, that was probably for the best because I was pretty frustrated at the time with everything and growing disinterested in URPG as a result. But I think maybe if it’s an option presented to those leaving, it may help things.

    For what it’s worth though, I’m interested in URPG because I want to show that what’s happening isn’t going to break us and that we’re stronger than this. Also because deep down, I really do enjoy this game and want to move past the frustration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monbrey
    I saw the original group chat where the idea was formulated together with the Park staff, knowingly and intentionally excluding Winter from the project who was still the Head at that time.
    I want to say that when these discussions first started, I distinctly remember asking why Winter wasn’t included because she was, at the time, still the current Park Head. I know that you have to be friends with someone to include them in a group DM, but the response I was met with was that Winter posted somewhere that she had to be inactive recently. This was on October 17th. I presume the post was in URPG staff, either on Discord or on the forums, but I can see neither, so I have no idea if what I was told was true. However, I also knew that Winter was busy with real life commitments, so I took what was told to me at the time as truth. That said, it was decided that going forward and proposing something to Winter was the best route to keep her from having to read hundreds of messages from us, so I went along with it.

    Was it the best option? Probably not, but I’ve learned from that. After I got clarification on why she wasn’t included in the first place, I didn’t feel as if she intentionally wasn’t being included, just that the decisions about Park were being left to myself and K’sariya at the time because of Winter’s inactivity. Winter never came to me personally about having to be inactive, but again, I assumed URPG staff knew and I also knew that she’d been inactive for a while because of real life commitments.

    Quote Originally Posted by K’sariya
    But that one apology was also accompanied with the implied accusation that Felly and I's initial Park changes were taken from SB. And that same accusation was accompanied by a joke made by Felly in URPG chat being used as ammunition against her to further imply that the ideas were taken from SB.
    This. If I’m going to be completely honest, this has hurt me deeply. The jokes were made in the context of me signing up for a National Park Team Run with Mikey. We were looking forward to doing Park together, and this was our chance to finally do it. Naturally, I had to go through the process of signing up for said run. In the process of signing up, I made a couple mistakes, namely forgetting to do the math of subtracting my money and also forgetting that we had just changed the fact that you didn’t have to pay to take extra Pokemon on a run. I made jokes about this in a public URPG chat, saying that I was 100% qualified for the job because they were silly mistakes I made, and I was okay with myself (and others) getting a laugh out of it. They were silly mistakes that I made and fixed appropriately. I will admit that perhaps the joke was tasteless and shouldn’t have been made.

    What got me most though was that something as little as a joke was used as ammunition to imply that we were taking ideas from SB. Two things hurt about this. The first is that K’sariya and I were being accused of taking ideas from SB. It hurts to be accused of stealing something from others, most especially when you had zero intention of doing so. The second is something more personal: a joke that I made in a public chat was used as ammunition against me. And it hurt. It hurt a lot. I’m past it now, but let me just say that it hurt for a while. It made me scared. What if I was making innocent jokes with my friends in URPG #general, or any other public URPG chat, and I said something that someone else took out of context and used it to try and get me banned or accused me of things? What if I was just having a normal conversation and that happened? It made me downright afraid to talk in URPG because I was scared of what could happen, of how innocent things I could say in public chats could be used as ammunition against me. While I spoke, I was hesitant and fearful of doing so lest the same thing happen again. Like I said, I’m past the fear now, and I’m no longer afraid to speak in public because of this. I’ve moved on from it now, thankfully.

    I also want to note that no one on staff came to me about the jokes I made in public. If they were truly problematic, I would have preferred that someone on staff came and spoke to me personally, which never happened. I have zero issue with being spoken to privately (or publicly for that matter) about things I’m doing wrong, and I can assure you that I’m not going to argue with you on the topic; I’ll apologize, of course, and share my thoughts if necessary, but I’m not going to sit there and waste my time or yours by arguing with you. But please do not go and use my words as ammunition to accuse me of theft, or anything else that’s untrue. And more importantly, don’t expect me to be a perfect human being because quite frankly, I’m not and I have zero plans to be a perfect human being. I make mistakes, and I want to learn from those mistakes. If you have a problem with something I’ve said or done, tell me so that I can A) not continue to say it or do it and B) apologize for my actions. I can’t fix what’s wrong with myself if I don’t know what’s wrong in the first place. I’m a big girl, I can handle things.

    To say that I haven’t been hurt or affected by the Park/Onmyo conflict is an understatement because I was hurt and affected by it. I’m past that pain now though, and I want to move forward from it. I have wanted to move forward from it for a little while now, and it’s difficult to do so when it continues to be brought up and dwelled upon. Will I join Onmyo? Maybe one day, when I can devote the time to reading up on it and properly participate in it as I’d like to, but I don’t have that time right now between dealing with personal, family issues and preparing to graduate in May. For now though, I’m going to enjoy URPG as it is, prioritizing Park and participating in the other sections as desired. I truly do care about this game, and I’m going to stick around for a while (sorry but not sorry).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •