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Thread: ✦ s e c o n d s b e f o r e / A NEW RP SECTION ✦

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    Comic Relief Elysia's Avatar
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    Default ✦ s e c o n d s b e f o r e / A NEW RP SECTION ✦

    "an idea can still change the world. i've witnessed first hand the power of ideas, i've seen people kill in the name of them, and die defending them... but you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it, or hold it... ideas do not bleed, they do not feel pain, they do not love..."
    - you know the movie. we missed the 5th of november, but hey, there were reasons for that :eyes:




    2017 has been an explosive year for URPG, and it's full of tons of new members, growth, and creativity that keep us joyous and remind us why we're all here! As we look ahead to the USUM Invitational and all the excitement to unleash, we (Smiles/Nitro/Elysia/Liam) are proud to propose... the Onmyo Region / seconds before / potentially a brand new RP section!?

    The short pitch:

    Welcome to a world at war.

    The medium pitch:

    This is a flexible RP that's designed to fit the niche between National Park and After Hours! Featuring some of the following things you know and love from the Pokemon videogames:

    • Elemental-themed regions
    • Exciting, randomly-rolled encounters
    • A ridiculously wide open world for you to explore


    And probably some other things that you might've been missing from URPG, such as non-battle badge quests, a level system, useful HM's, and more! It's got a ton of lore and love in it from the team and I really, really think you should all give it a read. Hell, even Monbrey said it interested him and it wasn't just because the fire people in this region are the coolest.

    The long pitch:

    Read it here!

    Feel free to ask questions! We've come a long way but this is still clearly a work in progress! There's a lot of explosive growth that went around this idea, and as we know, ideas are flexible and fickle and can really come and go anywhere... so please chime in! We love to hear people discuss things openly and give us that juicy feedback that we're so desperately craving.

    adamantine

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    Sleepyhead URPG Staff Jack's Avatar
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    Obviously a lot of love and work went into this! I love this, I love the idea of a fresh take on the trainer genre and i plan to post more here. But for now...

    IMO, we do not need a 3rd Roleplay Section. I am not against roleplay or here to shoot down this idea. 3 different roleplays on one forum is a LOT especially when they each have a ton of rules you have to learn.

    National Park vs After Hours makes sense. One thats pretty much your fantasy anime-esque anime, and your generica trainer roleplay.

    this is also a generic trainer roleplay.

    So the questions are:

    what does park do that this does not?

    what does this do that park does not?

    Do we need both? Or: why can't these two ideas be fused together?

    benefits to Park?

    Benefits to seconds before?

    should seconds before exist?

    last of all: a different name plz That isnt an ah reference (half-joking)
    Last edited by Jack; 11-08-17 at 02:04 AM.
    "Take Care of Yourself"



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    ♥Fiction♥ Smiles's Avatar
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    Certainly a great and important set of questions! There was a lot happening in the first post, but I'm excited to delve into these follow up questions here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralin View Post
    Obviously a lot of love and work went into this! I love this, I love the idea of a fresh take on the henre and i plan to post more here. But for now...

    IMO, we do not need a 3rd Roleplay Section. I am not against roleplay or here to shoot down this idea. 3 different roleplays on one forum is a LOT especially when they each have a ton of rules you have to learn.

    National Park vs After Hours makes sense. One thats pretty much your fantasy anime-esque anime, and your generica trainer roleplay.

    this is also a generic trainer roleplay.

    So the questions are:

    what does park do that this does not?

    what does this do that park does not?
    In many ways, people would describe seconds before as "what you thought URPG was going to be before you started URPGing." Basically, it functions as another creative platform to earn Pokemon through the game - a platform that celebrates the Pokemon-based roots of earning gym badges, fighting through kingdoms known as kuas, and building up your URPG team all along the way! Pokemon leveling is directly included in seconds before, a mechanism that's fresh and vibrant and directly integrated back into your URPG team. Seconds Before allows for vibrant and exciting role playing much like Park, but with an entirely different plotline, mechanisms for adventure, and integrative urpg growth!

    Do we need both? Or: why can't these two ideas be fused together?

    benefits to Park?

    Benefits to seconds before?
    I've personally been taking a strengths-based approach to understanding seconds before's role in the URPG metagame. That is, the presence of this role play does not detract from After Hours or the National Park; rather, the growth and exploration of one section will directly lead into another! As you pointed out, there is a role / specific genre that AH fulfills, one which Park fulfills, and ultimately one which this will fulfill as well, providing statistics and more quantifiable measures into a Pokemon role playing experience that directly integrates back into all of one's actual URPG team! Participation in all three sections will be huge for a player's individual growth, as each section taps into different components of strong role playing (for Park, this is a variety of things, such as anime battle realism, strategizing via both pokemon battles and adventures; for AH, it's individual character growth; for SB, it's plot-driven growth for a character and their urpg team).

    last of all: a different name plz That isnt an ah reference (half-joking)
    Originally, the joke was that seconds before would be the yin to AH's yang! It's also been lovingly referred to as BS, but these can certainly be scrutinized! We're also still looking for names for the job role as well, and would love any and all critique and thoughts!

    Thank you so much for contributing to this discussion <3

    ❤ MISTRAL IMMORTAL ❤

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    Hiya!

    First of all, I love the background world-building and the idea. And, while I share some of Nitros concerns about RP section inflation, Id like for this to at least get a chance to exist and see if it takes off.

    Im guessing that this is still a beta, so I wont criticize it for being nebulous on what the exact effect of Pokmon level and post quality is; instead, Ill just say that I look forward to seeing what the battling aspect of the game ends up being like.

    Kudos for building whats here so far! Feel free to hit me up for ideas/opinions 🙂

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles View Post
    In many ways, people would describe seconds before as "what you thought URPG was going to be before you started URPGing." Basically, it functions as another creative platform to earn Pokemon through the game - a platform that celebrates the Pokemon-based roots of earning gym badges, fighting through kingdoms known as kuas, and building up your URPG team all along the way! Pokemon leveling is directly included in seconds before, a mechanism that's fresh and vibrant and directly integrated back into your URPG team. Seconds Before allows for vibrant and exciting role playing much like Park, but with an entirely different plotline, mechanisms for adventure, and integrative urpg growth!

    I've personally been taking a strengths-based approach to understanding seconds before's role in the URPG metagame. That is, the presence of this role play does not detract from After Hours or the National Park; rather, the growth and exploration of one section will directly lead into another! As you pointed out, there is a role / specific genre that AH fulfills, one which Park fulfills, and ultimately one which this will fulfill as well, providing statistics and more quantifiable measures into a Pokemon role playing experience that directly integrates back into all of one's actual URPG team! Participation in all three sections will be huge for a player's individual growth, as each section taps into different components of strong role playing (for Park, this is a variety of things, such as anime battle realism, strategizing via both pokemon battles and adventures; for AH, it's individual character growth; for SB, it's plot-driven growth for a character and their urpg team).
    This feels like a whole lot of nothing in an answer. It says what SB does but doesn't give any evidence or direction as to why it needs to exist and what it does that Park does not, other than providing maybe a different type of adventure. I'd love something more of a response or feedback on how exactly this differentiates itself.

    Additionally, with so many elements taken from the park (and to an extent After Hours as well) I don't see how this *wouldn't* detract from the other two sections. There is literally no evidence even now that After Hours encourages Park activity and vice versa. The Park has seemed to be pretty independent of AH activity-wise, and I can chalk that up to having 3 active section heads constantly working on AH, vs the very recent administration change of the Park. But while AH has thrived, both due to its leadership and incentives (and I'd like to think the concept is amazing as well!) I don't see (and doubt you could provide) *any* evidence that Park and AH thrive off of each other. I think maybe the indication of recent Park changes might change this, but if this is true with only 2 RP sections, I'm very hesitant to throw a third into the mix.

    Lastly, it feels like this would compete with both sections solely in how it's currently constructed. I understand that it is a work in progress, but SB's drawing on so many distinct elements from both Park and After Hours make it feel both rushed and conflicting. I think some major changes to how encounters work and how the RP is done, to distinguish itself from the two, would be utterly necessary before anything like this could be released. The point of an RP section is to provide something unique; I feel you have a lot of that which gets bogged down by trying to combine AH with Park, and it turns into this halfway-met mess.

    SB feels like an amazing concept and I'm sure you've worked on it extensively, but I think the fact that it could, and more than likely will, harm Park activity further, as well as detract from an After Hours that is just beginning to get into a rhythm and thrive after the Campaign, is something to consider and test around. I am firmly of the opinion that an alternative could be found, either as a 3rd RP section or even as an augment to Park/AH, that would rectify this.

    Tl;dr find creative solutions by removing park/Ah elements and replacing them with your own, original ideas, which so far look absolutely astounding.
    Abras are so cute!
    Joined URPG 1/28/2017!
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    Lastly, it feels like this would compete with both sections solely in how it's currently constructed. I understand that it is a work in progress, but SB's drawing on so many distinct elements from both Park and After Hours make it feel both rushed and conflicting. I think some major changes to how encounters work and how the RP is done, to distinguish itself from the two, would be utterly necessary before anything like this could be released. The point of an RP section is to provide something unique; I feel you have a lot of that which gets bogged down by trying to combine AH with Park, and it turns into this halfway-met mess.
    Personally, this is what fascinates me about this Roleplay idea! I really do think that it does take some inspiration from the others. Is that bad? Heck no! We SHOULD build off of ideas we have established! IT makes everything feel more together. Though, It would be bad to over saturate the small community we have with three different role plays.

    Also, Again. I'd like some clear examples on how each one is different from one another. I see encounters, and how RP works as things that are taken from the other two. Personally, I would not mind some universal URPG rules! Especially when we have to understand three different ones!

    harm Park activity further, as well as detract from an After Hours that is just beginning to get into a rhythm and thrive after the Campaign, is something to consider and test around.
    Although I do agree with some of this. I would love some examples as to HOW. From everyone else's perspective how does it detract? How does it harm After Hours? How does it harm National Park?

    I then raise the same as I said earlier:

    Is it possible to fuse this into National Park? Or After Hours if people would prefer that.
    "Take Care of Yourself"



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    Comic Relief Elysia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weirlind120 View Post
    This feels like a whole lot of nothing in an answer.
    hi there let's keep our friendly voices on for this one

    It says what SB does but doesn't give any evidence or direction as to why it needs to exist and what it does that Park does not, other than providing maybe a different type of adventure. I'd love something more of a response or feedback on how exactly this differentiates itself.
    This is a mixed bag and something we've been considering for a while. We're also working with Park to figure out their specific concerns, but in the meantime, we realize that discussion of a new section doesn't just need to be backroom leadership talks.

    Why things need to exist is a difficult question, so I'm sorry that it's taking so long to tease an answer out. There's a lot of muddled history for how and why this idea was made, but at some point, we thought URPG could use a little more of a lot of different things. AH is scary to new RP'ers. Park has ups and downs, but the activity stagnates. Runs go dead. People make jokes about how they've abandoned their runs, and while they shouldn't really be making those jokes in the first place, the root cause is still there--people were leaving. It was sad. A lot of stuff went wrong in the meantime and I don't claim to be the only solution.

    As for what each section offers to players of URPG, in my eyes: Park offers a distilled, back-to-back series of anime-esque battling. It tests your ability to combine Pokemon toolkits together into new and exciting combos. AH offers a wild, imaginative adventure that asks you to develop sense of character an worth, and interact with different aspects of the world in a small, meaningful way. SB was designed for neither of those roles: it's a plot-based, plot-driven attempt to give people a single defined goal (become Champ) with a lot of interactions and potential for sidequests along the way. We saw in AH that people got invested in their missions when it felt like the plot was personal to them, as if the characters they were interacting with were affected by them, so we incorporated that aspect into SB but gave it a more grounded, familiar element (gyms, regions like the videogames). People have mentioned being confused by the off-the-walls nature of AH, and while Smiles and I love that to bits, we do want to create an active RP that is a bit more accessible to people while still offering room for intense plot and growth.

    Additionally, with so many elements taken from the park (and to an extent After Hours as well) I don't see how this *wouldn't* detract from the other two sections. There is literally no evidence even now that After Hours encourages Park activity and vice versa.
    There isn't evidence about AH-Park correlations, and I won't claim that this is indicative. However, if you really want to get into the numbers about Park specifically:
    July - September: 21 posts (10.5 posts/month)
    June - July: 22 posts
    May - June: 3 posts
    April - May: 8 posts

    This is a small dataset and it's hard to extrapolate what the spike is for, and I wouldn't have the arrogance to claim that it's for AH Campaign starting and people getting in the RP mood~~ because there are so many other factors (people not having classes/finals, Rangers being lit, etc), but it's worth looking at. Also worth looking at honestly is how things do tend to stagnate, and how we can look into ways of fixing these things.

    We proposed a couple of things when we first opened up this idea, including fusing SB with Park and letting the strengths of both shine through. This idea failed for many reasons, most of which are irrelevant to this conversation. Park leadership thought it was in our best interest to create a separate section, and we're working with them to see what similarities could be removed.

    The Park has seemed to be pretty independent of AH activity-wise, and I can chalk that up to having 3 active section heads constantly working on AH, vs the very recent administration change of the Park.
    There are two ways to approach this. The first is to acknowledge that AH has only one section Head (Smiles), but if you're implying that Ace Chroniclers have the same power to enact positive change in their communities as any other Senior/Lead/Elite Position, then we could argue that the changes in Park leadership will not change the number of active section heads. The second is to ignore all the above data and hope that some genuine positive stuff will come out of this, which I could support! There's a lot of backstory here; no one wants to see Park die, but no one knows what to do.

    Lastly, it feels like this would compete with both sections solely in how it's currently constructed. I understand that it is a work in progress, but SB's drawing on so many distinct elements from both Park and After Hours make it feel both rushed and conflicting. I think some major changes to how encounters work and how the RP is done, to distinguish itself from the two, would be utterly necessary before anything like this could be released. The point of an RP section is to provide something unique; I feel you have a lot of that which gets bogged down by trying to combine AH with Park, and it turns into this halfway-met mess.
    I'm a bit lost and would like some specific clarification. The structure of the RP, in addition to being okayed by Smiles, who first brought it to AH, is pretty set in most online RP sites that have some sort of long-term tracking/goals. Encounters are derivative of the games, which also use RNG from a fixed pool to give you some potential captures.

    SB feels like an amazing concept and I'm sure you've worked on it extensively, but I think the fact that it could, and more than likely will, harm Park activity further, as well as detract from an After Hours that is just beginning to get into a rhythm and thrive after the Campaign, is something to consider and test around.
    This brings us back to that interesting purpose of intent and purpose and reasons for existing. Don't read too much into this metaphor, and definitely don't assign false equivalences. It's here because appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy that I stand firmly against. But people didn't shoot down the idea of cars because they already had horse-drawn carriages, even if at first cars might only provide them with a different type of adventure.

    I am firmly of the opinion that an alternative could be found, either as a 3rd RP section or even as an augment to Park/AH, that would rectify this.
    Down for proposals!

    Tl;dr find creative solutions by removing park/Ah elements and replacing them with your own, original ideas, which so far look absolutely astounding.
    A bit lost on these. AH ideas pretty much inherently belong to Smiles, unless I'm unaware of something, and she doesn't see the blatant similarities that you tout here. Park, yes, has messier roots because of the nature of things, but if you could list out your concerns (or flesh out the encounter example mentioned above), we're trying to address them.

    EDIT: golden son ralin types faster than I, but I like his direction :eyes:
    Last edited by Elysia; 11-08-17 at 05:59 PM. Reason: June - July is one month and I can do math

    adamantine

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    ♥Fiction♥ Smiles's Avatar
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    hi there! I've been doing some reflection about this, and wanted to share some thoughts here! I also want to thank everyone for bringing up crucial and important questions to the table! This is certainly a considerable potential change, and it's wonderful to have community input and insight! I wanted to return to some earlier questions to begin with:

    Why should this exist?

    Ely outlined better than I did where this fits in in comparison to National Park and After Hours, but there's another point that I want to add: if there's a staff team to boost the game and players to play, the game will flourish. URPG is so unique because it prides itself on being a game that offers multiple creative, community, and collaborative efforts for people all united by Pokemon. The very act of creating and running sections is the paragon to this community ideal: we're all about creating worlds here on the URPG. To ask why this should exist is to ask why AH should exist, why we'd spend our time writing stories, etc. Additionally, I'm on the belief that the more creative outlets we add for the URPG, the wider the net we cast and the greater the retention of players. A common joke is that your urpg life interferes with your urpg life - you need to finish your scheduled gym battle, finish your WAH story, complete your posts for Campaign - and that's good! Variety is good! The URPG's strength is being a jack of all trades and we should foster this! There are outlets that the URPG does not satisfy and honestly I'd encourage the creation of those in the future if someone wanted to pursue them. The more the game can offer you, the more you give back, the more other players enjoy, etc. It's a very positive and powerful feedback cycle.

    How will this detract from the National Park & AH?

    I've been doing a lot of reflecting back to when I made After Hours two years ago, which has been both insightful and also a bit befuddling given different context. During that entire time of AH's creation, no one asked what would happen to the National Park. Winter approved of AH; she continued on to win Character of the Month on numerous occasions, esteemed awards indicative of the both / and philosophy, in which you can participate and have both sections and encourage the success of simultaneous sections. In the same vein, no one asks what will happen to Battles and Contests with the introduction of the Battle Factory or a potential Dungeons section. No one would think that any of those current projects would interfere with what's currently in place. I've come to this conclusion:

    the anxiety is not whether the URPG can maintain another role playing section; the current concern revolves around Park's ability to stay afloat as it currently is. Reframed, this is not a conversation about Seconds Before - this is a conversation about National Park's diminishing activity, which has been occurring over the course of several months and is not a causation related to this.

    There have been a myriad of factors contributing to that over the course of months, and no one solely is to blame for it. We have new leaders in place who are already implementing excellent changes to the Park and will bring about more generative change. That being said, I say this all to help guide the conversation into something more productive - not the fear of what will happen to Park or AH, as I genuinely believe that we can have all three sections flourish, but rather back to the subject at hand - Seconds Before and its ongoing evolution.

    I am the section head of AH. I am neither concerned nor upset by a potentially new section. Instead, I'm excited for future collaboration opportunities with SB and NP on an overarching level, and to continually see success brought to all sections. SB right now feels like the little brother who's going to grow up to be the coolest kid on the block, and I'm excited to run with them!

    What does this bring to the URPG?

    I talked about this in the first bolded thing, but to add something more - role playing is great! Role playing is one of the quickest, best ways to interact with URPG on a daily basis; after all, it takes extensive time to draw and illustrate a masterpiece or to write a 10k story. Role playing posts, such as journals, can be done so quickly, shared with other players, and used to inspire people on a daily basis to get involved and collaborate right back. It's the type of daily involvement for being on the URPG that AH rewards (ex: token system) and the type of daily involvement that really helps you feel connected to something bigger. On another note, I look forward to trying all these different role play environments; as on another quick note, it's easy for role players to switch from section to section (perhaps not AH starting out because it has more rules) but I truly believe that this will encourage and increase activity to not just the RPing sections but URPG as a whole.

    ❤ MISTRAL IMMORTAL ❤

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    Okay, after doing some digging I now have the perspective, the time and the effort to spend on a breakdown of what I love about the current proposal; what I dont love; and what suggestions I can offer as solutions.

    Firstly, in the interests of transparency, I have already shared these suggestions with the team of four thats working actively on SB, and the suggestions were not to their liking. That is okay with me; however I will be posting these suggestions here for the public to peruse in case many minds together can synthesize something more acceptable out of them!

    Please feel free to just read the TL;DR, but respond & rebut after reading the entire post. Defensive, knee-jerk reactions to the mere idea of being contradicted are how the problems with Seconds Before came about in the first place, and theyre why its going to die if something isnt fixed.

    TL;DR:
    I love the world, the emulation of some of the handheld games charm, and the concept of 8 oft-conflicting Kua that players travel through via game mechanics
    I dont love how its executed, because so far the execution is just [An AH Alternate Universe + Park (The things that make AH and Park easy to get into)]
    We should make SB unique, with mechanics that arent already spoken for in other sections. One idea for how to do this is included below; more ideas are welcome and needed!

    Long-form, evidence-based explanation:

    Things I love, and why:
    The setting! I believe the setting is amazing and opens up a lot of opportunity for story-building and vibrant characters; players and Storytellers/(whatever were calling [SB professionals] in the interim) can set their story in a variety of different cultures and introduce conflict on any level from a personal level to a grand-scale sociopolitical level (wars between Kua??)
    Reasons I believe this: More premise options = good when crafting a narrative
    I believe the use of Gym Badge-gated HMs and creativity (travel posts) in moving from place to place are a good concept.
    Reasons I believe this: HMs are not hard to come by in URPG, so most places will be easy to reach; however, gating some areas with gym badges will evoke the handheld games and increase the felt impact of having badges
    To some extent, I love the system for building a party begin with a Starter Pokmon, add more basics from URPG stats by obtaining in-game rewards, and even evolve them during play! Its one point of difference, and prevents SB from being easily merged with any other section, since it introduces a long, involved process needed before one gets to play the whole game. That said, I think the current progression one Pokmon per gym leader defeated is far too slow for most, albeit not for myself.
    Reasons I enjoy this: if SB is to stand alone, it needs elements that are seen nowhere else; this is one, and although its not enough on its own, its a step in the right direction. However, keep in mind that it is also a major detractor from accessibility the things I enjoy about it may make it hell for someone who doesnt want to have to painstakingly import their URPG stats one Pokmon at a time.

    Things I dont love, and why:
    I believe theres a lack of any truly unique element to exploration or battles in SB. So far, the game is Play AH, but with a mix of scripted and random anime-style battle encounters. The development team has been very clear with me that there is (at this time) no intent to consider including a battle system that involves numbers or calculation HP exists, but damage is based on a subjective decision by a [SB professional] based on RP quality, on bonuses (such as from Kua/STAB/type advantage,) and so on... if that sounds familiar, its because that literally is the Park.
    Reasons I believe this is a bad thing: Borrowing the Parks system is iffy already, and would be fine if this were an actual improvement to the Park. However...
    Seconds Before is a game thats meant as a middle ground between Park and After Hours; unfortunately, I believe that SB, as it is right now, ends up being an amalgam that does both things, but less fluidly than each individual RP system does it. Seconds Before uses a scattering of new elements (including the ones I love, see above) for flavour, but the roleplay is AH and the battles are Park. This means that a player who comes for the anime-style battles but doesnt enjoy extensive freeform RP in between major battles is better served by the Park; whereas a player who prefers to avoid this kind of battle and takes part mostly in puzzle-based Quests is literally just playing AH, but with more rules and restrictions (and with the added inconvenience of having to run away from random encounters that break immersion.)
    Reasons I believe this: SB in its current iteration can be described quite completely in terms of AH and Park: SB is either Park, but with an AH barrier before you get to battle, or its AH, but you have to actively avoid Park elements if you dont want to take part in them.
    I dont love that SB is going to die if its not fixed. The conflict between SB and other sections may be vehemently denied by several of those present (all of whom happen to be the developers) but it should be obvious that SB will compete with existing sections; this is because it is made of existing sections. I want Seconds Before to succeed, and Im concerned because its clear to me that SBs competition with existing sections wont kill the existing sections; itll kill SB. Thankfully, Seconds Before is far from finished so there is room to create something new; but if released in its current state, it will die out immediately following the rush of novelty (Id give it about 3 months, 5 tops.)
    Reasons I believe this: Im a player of URPG, with a perspective the game developers lack. Ive spoken to others, who echo the following basic sentiment: were eager to experience the world of Seconds Before, but we arent going to stay interested in a game that is a mashup of a system only some of us like to play and another system only some of us like to play; we also wouldnt want to play a game that is a mashup of two things some of us like, but which executes both elements in a clunkier way than the originals. And I personally would be horrified if I thought the mashup was intended to replace either or both of them.

    So, it follows that if we want to save SB from itself, one way is by making it something new, and not a mashup of AH and Park. Here are a few ways we could do this:
    Let go of the preconception that battles have to be anime-style. Were simulating the experience of playing the games at least to some extent, right? And the gym leaders are supposed to be a serious challenge, like in URPG, right? So use URPG rules, but give the actual %-based Kua bonuses described in the SB doc, apply the same bonuses to opponents, and most importantly give subjective bonuses for good battle roleplay (maybe 10-25% added damage, or 5-15%reduced damage taken?) There are currently no roleplay-based sections that actually use calculated battles. This would be unique, at least; it would be a draw for people who dont see what theyre wanting from ordinary battles, from the National Park, or from After Hours.
    Alternatively, adopt another battle system, whether anime-style or calculated, that isnt URPG but with backstory bonuses. I have one suggestion; more on that below.
    Make Quests more distinct from AH Missions. One way would be to introduce a clear RPG framework of whatever kind, so players have an idea of what actions they could take on a game-mechanics basis, while keeping RP unrestricted.

    My main concrete suggestion for how to achieve the above is to use Bluetowels Dungeons system for some or all Quests. See here for details on how it works https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...7TQG2XkKsN6ELs

    Essentially, exploration is achieved by moving from scene to scene (called Rooms in the system, but a Room can be anything from a forest clearing to an aerial vantage above a battlefield) where roleplay, battles, and plot events can take place.

    Dungeons is still in early development and could be adapted to fit SB rather than forcing SB to change any of its vibrant world. For instance, a Dungeon could take the form of a fairly linear challenge like a series of gym Trainers followed by a Leader, like in the handheld games; or it could be a completely battle-free journey with puzzles along the way.

    I would be willing to assist with such adaptation.

    Id like to invite others to suggest changes to these proposals, or offer counter-proposals! (I am of course open to criticism; although it is unhelpful to claim, that wont work, without an explanation of why not, feel free to express such if its your opinion!)

  18. #10
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    I'm going to be honest here, and my wording might come off as harsh, but my intent isn't to insult those who are currently working on Park or have worked on Park in the past. AH and Park have/have had some overlap in its developers, after all, and I work with those AHers on a daily basis as a Chronicler.

    I re-joined URPG a solid six months ago, and I have not had a single opportunity to jump into Park without feeling guilty about adding to the current ranger workload. K'sariya was burning out shortly after I re-joined, so, no, I couldn't bug her about it - I'd have hated to stress her out more. Velo and CowboyJake joined the ranks together at some point, but their runs died quickly and with those runs, their interest in ranger-ing. (I obviously can't speak for them, but the lack of Park posts recently is indicative enough for me.)

    I've heard nothing about Park besides promise after promise of things happening in the background - rangers who wanted to ranger again but never ended up doing so, big changes supposedly coming up that couldn't be implemented because of an inactive section head, etc etc. And, to be frank, it doesn't matter if things were actually being planned in the background during all this time. Many players vouch for communication in the open, and the only communication that I've seen has been complete indifference toward the Park. My first reaction when Park is mentioned is to tune the conversation out because of how irrelevant it's been to my experience in URPG. Now, I'm sure K'sariya and Mistral will work on their section since it's in their power to do so and will do great things, but unfortunately, the massive amount of disinterest surrounding this section has been discouraging and doesn't make me want to jump in even now that I probably can. Again, I don't want to sound harsh here, and I probably do - but URPG has a habit of literally asking for drama and initiating it (in any section, not just Park or other creative sections), and I want to sound firm on my stance as someone who's not involved in it but is effected by it anyway. What people say matters; what people do matters; and with invitational just around the corner as well as considering the concern over how we can't maintain new members, I think those in URPG who are in a position to effect their sections and the game as a whole would do well to remember this.

    What's the point of my post, then? Basically, defending Park is, in my opinion, a weak argument against Seconds Before. Seconds Before as its own third RP section can't take activity away from Park because there's no activity to take away to begin with. Again, I'm aware Park activity might pick up now, but by the time Seconds Before can be finalized and officially implemented as a section, I'm sure Park will either hit its stride or the hype will die down again, thus giving K'sariya and Mistral enough information to proceed with what they want to do with it.

    While Magik is concerned about Seconds Before dying, I'm concerned about Park dying. Again. And then, again and again. All I keep seeing on the Discord, after all, is confusion for why Park, after all this time, just doesn't work as a whole. Seconds Before could potentially inspire people to venture in Park if people end up liking the Park aspects Seconds Before has to offer, or, if not, K'sariya and Mistral can at least use the RPers' opinions to figure out what they want to do with Park. Or, really, why can't this be the replacement for Park? Or why can't this be the major revamp for Park, then have the AH aspects removed to make it feel wholly original? Again, I see no reason to preserve Park and to continue it with the form it's in, and have seen K'sariya and Mistral themselves say an overhaul is needed. I don't even have to have participated in Park to agree - again, the open communication about this that I've seen has said it all. Anyway, Seconds Before could be the overhaul, or if this isn't their envisioned version of the Park, working with the other RP sections sounds like the perfect segway to plan and implement the goals they do they have for the Park.

    I won't go into the finer details of Seconds Before because the main issue facing it right now, I think, is whether or not it should even exist or where it would stand in URPG.
    Last edited by diamondpearl876; 11-09-17 at 11:14 PM. Reason: forgot a word


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